Ricoh VP of Marketing Talks Improving Performance Through Relevance Marketing

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John Barnes
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It's working with those darned human beings that makes it all so difficult, whether you're in the corporate or the academic world.  The minute you set up a system to do anything, there's going to be system-gamers who don't care about the goal but do care about the system, and then system-gaming-preventers who only care about preventing the system from being gamed, and then system-gaming-prevention-hackers who don't actually want to game the system as much as they want to defeat the preventers ... and so on.

 

Ryck
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John, I am very practically oriented, sometimes to the dismay of my wife.  As part of my approach, I try to focus on what's the objective, and did what we did achieve it, or at least get us closer.  I do understand your point about hidden agendas and egos.  We see those in the corporate world, as well.

John Barnes
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Ryck, of course you are right in the way you teach -- but quite a few of our teacher colleagues don't have your practical orientation, for a variety of not very good reasons.  Many graphic arts teachers are frustrated fine artists who really just want the client's purchased space to be something like a gallery wall for a fine artist (or perhaps a graffitist's use of any old wall they can get to), and they encourage that approach in students; many marketing and advertising classes are all about the cool presentation in class (and let's face it, it's a lot more fun to watch students do parody advertising for an invented product that would make a good Saturday Night Live sketch than it is to see them do a presentation for a campaign plan that might actually sell toothpaste).  There are teachers who insist on teaching the relevant real world approach -- but many of those teachers are avoided, because the other kind are more fun (and let's face it, easier).

Ryck
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"Part of my new regiment of questions is to ask the clients what they know about their target market..."

@Scott - I've even asked firms to let me speak to their customers.  It's been interesting to learn that the companies assumed they knew their customer's needs, but they really didn't.  It seems like back to basics, but you need to understand what is happening where the rubber meets the road, not the perception in the ivory tower.

Ryck
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@John - the idea of creativity trumping fit to requirments seems surprising.  In the university course I teach, we ask for creativity, but only to avoid them rehashing some other idea.  We still measure the solution on its ability to address the needs.  Perhaps you're seeing some different things than I am.

John Barnes
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Firing the client sounds like it was dead-on and exactly the kind of thing that should happen in a group project (not every time, obviously).  Bravo to your professor.

I was thinking of this just the other day because I know a small college theatre department that, because it's part of a bigger fine arts college, has been ordered to have all its posters done by the graphic arts students, and since they can't be fired, many of the graphic arts students draw what they like, include the who-where-what-when in hard to read typefaces, and bill the theatre types for it.  It seems to me that this is just a very exaggerated version of what happens with a lot of marketing group projects in schools; maybe instructors should look for "outside clients" more often, or at least get people to role play clients.

One of the best journalism teachers I've ever known used to send his students to interviews with faculty members (this was not for publication) and would have the faculty member, not the student, tape the interview and give him the tape.  Then he'd compare what was said with what was written and go over that with the students.  Made much better journalists fast!

smkinoshita
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"Perhaps it socializes young marketers into believing that knowing without asking is the mark of success."

In our group presentation, we fired the client.  The class thought our group had a break-down, while the professor knew exactly what was happening and why.  (We had to get a real-world client, who wound up not taking us seriously and wasting our time).  We got a grade of 102.5% for both creativity and realism.

"The first step in that, I think, is admitting that you might not know and that you'll have to do work to find out. "

Part of my new regiment of questions is to ask the clients what they know about their target market, and then break down to what the expected results should be, assuming all their statements are correct.  Then I test.


I think this is the if/then @Sandra's talking about, correct?  I don't know if it's so much a matter of 'knowing without asking' as much 'never being taught how to measure'.  None of the texts we were given even mentioned doing tests.


John Barnes
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The first step in that, I think, is admitting that you might not know and that you'll have to do work to find out.  Which is not an easy admission for people in any branch of the company, but seems to be very tough for some marketers.  I wonder if that's because in many training programs in marketing, they emphasize students doing group presentations that are based on made up data, and grade them on "creativity" rather than on fit to the requirements?  (I can think of half a dozen fields where this is common besides marketing, come to think of it).  Perhaps it socializes young marketers into believing that knowing without asking is the mark of success.

Sandra Zoratti
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@Ryck You are a smart man.  Thank you for sharing your experience.  I agree!  Specifically, asking and answering the precise customer need is especially important in an attention-deficit world where us marketers have limited chances to engage and retain our customers.  Customer defection is a real challenge today with the world of global choices readily available to all.   Thanks again.

Ryck
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@Sandra - I think that those in sales and marketing need listent more attentively.  Recently I did work with a small company who thought they knew exactly why customers purchased their product.  In conducting an interview for a case study, we surprisingly learned that it was actually different needs being addressed that clinched the sale.  If we are willing to listen, customers will provide us many, interesting insights.

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